<html><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"><meta content="Group-Office 2.18" name="GENERATOR"></head><body><p>Any thoughts on the new rev (my comments below)?</p>
<p><a href="http://samoff.maemobox.org/maemo_redesign/samoff-maemo.org-redesign_idea_0008e.png">http://samoff.maemobox.org/maemo_redesign/samoff-maemo.org-redesign_idea_0008e.png</a><br />
<a href="http://samoff.maemobox.org/maemo_redesign/samoff-maemo.org-redesign_idea_0008e-supp.png">http://samoff.maemobox.org/maemo_redesign/samoff-maemo.org-redesign_idea_0008e-supp.png</a></p>
<p>T.<br />
<br />
---<br />
Weblog ~ <a class="blue" target="_blank" href="http://tim.samoff.com">http://tim.samoff.com</a><br />
Kidblog ~ <a class="blue" target="_blank" href="http://kc.samoff.com">http://kc.samoff.com</a><br />
Photography ~ <a class="blue" target="_blank" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/timsamoff">http://www.flickr.com/photos/timsamoff</a><br />
Film ~ <a class="blue" target="_blank" href="http://www.youtube.com/timsamoff">http://www.youtube.com/timsamoff</a><br />
<br />
<br />
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color rgb(34, 67, 127); border-width: 0pt 0pt 0pt 2px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 5px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 5px;"><font face="verdana" size="2">----- Original Message -----<br />
<strong>Subject: </strong>RE: maemo.org redesign<br />
<strong>From: </strong>Tim <tim@samoff.com><br />
<strong>To: </strong>"quim.gil@nokia.com" <quim.gil@nokia.com>,"dneary@maemo.org" <dneary@maemo.org>,"maemo-community@maemo.org" <maemo-community@maemo.org><br />
<strong>Date: </strong>10/09/2008 7:43 am<br />
</font><br />
<br />
<p>Hi,</p>
<p>From Quim:</p>
<p>> PS1: max width vs flexible width...<snip>...You can find good and bad<br />
> implementations for both cases.</p>
<p>Yes. While I prefer fluid in _most_ cases -- especially those with lots of flowing text... Some of my favorite designs are fixed -- and unbreakable.</p>
<p>> PS2: why the urge to avoid anything similar to the current homepage?</p>
<p>As this process (redesign, etc.) has progressed, I've been leaning toward Quim's viewpoint on this one (as you can see in my design). Sure, we don't want the *same* site. That's why we are doing this. But similarities are fine -- and maybe even preferable.</p>
<p>> ...the main thing and graphic designers can start trying to implement THE<br />
> layout before us driving them mad (as we are doing with the poor Tim)?</p>
<p>I'll send Nokia my therapy bill. :p</p>
<p>From Thomas:</p>
<p>First, Thomas, thanks for involuntarily allowing us to use you as a "slug" in these mockups! ;)</p>
<p>> * The yellow triangle on the left of "Not logged in" makes it look<br />
> like a link...</p>
<p>You're right. Thanks for changing it. I will in my next rev as well.</p>
<p>> * Is the search box on the top going to be a drop-down list?</p>
<p>As per Quim's suggestion: Yes. I'll try to indicate this better with a supplimentary graphic for the next rev.</p>
<p>> my cheap-ish Gimp skills</p>
<p>Whatever. :p</p>
<p>Next version:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><a href="http://samoff.maemobox.org/maemo_redesign/samoff-maemo.org-redesign_idea_0008e.png">http://samoff.maemobox.org/maemo_redesign/samoff-maemo.org-redesign_idea_0008e.png</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<ul>
<li>Added "Get Help" to top-right navigation</li>
<li>Removed big buttons from main content area</li>
<li>Created supplimental search functionality example: <a href="http://samoff.maemobox.org/maemo_redesign/samoff-maemo.org-redesign_idea_0008e-supp.png">http://samoff.maemobox.org/maemo_redesign/samoff-maemo.org-redesign_idea_0008e-supp.png</a></li>
</ul>
<p>Keep in mind that while there is a "right sidebar" area in this mockup, it still _does_ fit within the main browser window. So, in that regard, the info will always be viewable.</p>
<p>Tim</p>
<p><br />
---<br />
Weblog ~ <a href="http://tim.samoff.com" target="_blank" class="blue">http://tim.samoff.com</a><br />
Kidblog ~ <a href="http://kc.samoff.com" target="_blank" class="blue">http://kc.samoff.com</a><br />
Photography ~ <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/timsamoff" target="_blank" class="blue">http://www.flickr.com/photos/timsamoff</a><br />
Film ~ <a href="http://www.youtube.com/timsamoff" target="_blank" class="blue">http://www.youtube.com/timsamoff</a></p>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color rgb(34, 67, 127); border-width: 0pt 0pt 0pt 2px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 5px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 5px;"><font face="verdana" size="2">----- Original Message -----<br />
<strong>Subject: </strong>RE: maemo.org redesign<br />
<strong>From: </strong>quim.gil@nokia.com <quim.gil@nokia.com><br />
<strong>To: </strong>dneary@maemo.org,tim@samoff.com,maemo-community@maemo.org<br />
<strong>Date: </strong>10/08/2008 11:17 pm<br />
</font><br />
<br />
Hi, answers based on<br />
http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemoorg-home-proposal-3.jpg<br />
<br />
> The guy who comes to the site to get help with a problem - <br />
> where will he click?<br />
<br />
He would go to the search (not a coincidenc that I was proposing a<br />
"support" segmentation by default) or perhaps he would look at the shiny<br />
shortcut we have for him in the top right column. Or perhaps we have put<br />
a dedicated item for him in the top riht navigation bar.<br />
<br />
You don't need to add thick buttons to offer Help/Support. Your guy<br />
needs help but it is safe to suppose that he is not being chasedby a<br />
crocodile or having a heart attack. People is used to search engines<br />
nowadays. Besides, usually web services have an option for help/support<br />
in their navigation areas and the footer. <br />
<br />
<br />
> The guy who wants to find out how he can help, or how he can <br />
> give feedback - where does he click?<br />
<br />
"Get involved", "Contact" or similar words can be used either in the<br />
navigation bar or the shortcuts. If we loose someone's feedback because<br />
he didn't find the thick icon after 0,3 seconds then perhaps that<br />
feedback or contribution wouldn't have been that big anyway.<br />
<br />
> I think we definitely need to address this use-vase <br />
> prominently - right now, he has maybe 5/6 links to consider: <br />
> "Mailing lists", "Documentation", "Users united", "Bugzilla", "Wiki".<br />
<br />
This is why I didn't start on purpose the debate about what items in the<br />
navigation and what shortcuts. This belongs to a next level of<br />
discussion. Sining off the first discussion by agreeing that we will<br />
have a nav bar, a shortcuts list and no thick buttons in the middle of<br />
the screen would help moving forward.<br />
<br />
> I still think it's a mistake to have Bugzilla, wiki, mailing <br />
> lists on the front page. Garage doesn't mean anything to <br />
> someone who's not already a community member. I'm not sure <br />
> that "Documentation" makes sense as a front page link, because <br />
> you have 3 types of documentation:<br />
<br />
I agree and I'm not sure either about documentation. But can we please<br />
hold on all those parallel debates around texts/words until we agree on<br />
the main thing and graphic designers can start trying to implement THE<br />
layout before us driving them mad (as we are doing with the poor Tim)?<br />
<br />
'Lorem ipse...' is widely used in graphic design for a reason.<br />
<br />
> There are elements of this design I really like - I do think <br />
> it's promising, but I think we need to have the "solve a <br />
> problem", "developer", "downloads", "news" "get involved" <br />
> prominent on the home page.<br />
<br />
Navigation bar + shortcuts. Nobody said one of these or both shouldn't<br />
be "prominent on the home page". I don't think fat buttons in the middle<br />
of the screen serve a better purpose.<br />
<br />
> On the new design, Downloads and <br />
> News are really well represented, and we've dropped the links <br />
> for solving problems and getting involved to some extent.<br />
<br />
I like how Tim has integrated the "Get Involved" part in his last<br />
proposal<br />
<br />
> And "Development" has been reduced to one small link in the top right.<br />
<br />
And what is the problem if this is the place where developers are used<br />
to find the link for them? (again, plus the footer). You are in a<br />
software platform website and you have a home full of software apps and<br />
related news. It is obvious that somewhere there is going to be a link<br />
for Developers. Top right corner, found it. <br />
<br />
<br />
> I'd really like us to go back to prominent placement of <br />
> categories like "problem", "get involved", "developer" - <br />
> perhaps with big graphical buttons like Tim proposed in his V1.<br />
<br />
I hope to have given enough arguments sustaining why those big graphical<br />
buttons are no better solution that good usage of the old good<br />
navigation elements in the header. Perhaps one problem here is that you<br />
are assuming that the list of shortcuts will be boring and grey,<br />
unvisible. Well, making it prominent and visible is just a matter of<br />
playing with pixels keeping the same structure.<br />
<br />
Please approve the pencil mockup as a good default approach and invite<br />
graphic designers to play around it having in mind the list of targeted<br />
users and use cases listed at<br />
http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org/proposal . Tim is right<br />
by saying that at some point the real progress needs to happen on top of<br />
mockups.<br />
<br />
PS1: max width vs flexible width - I have gone through this discussion<br />
many times and I had enough of it. You can find good and bad<br />
implementations for both cases. One thing is truth: long horizontal<br />
lines are difficult to read. Many sites are 100% flexible in<br />
header/footer but have limited max width for the body text. Again, good<br />
designers are used to deal with these issues.<br />
<br />
PS2: why the urge to avoid anything similar to the current homepage?<br />
There are many complaints about maemo.org but overall the homepage<br />
*structure* serves decently the purpose. We have heard many comments<br />
about better usage of the space, links that could be changed, less focus<br />
on pure development... These points have very little to do with the<br />
structure itself.<br />
<br />
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
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</blockquote></p></body></html>