Hi all,<div><br></div><div>I'm sharing the <a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AubSh-ONkzPndFN3ZFBKMUJOb05tdV9Ub3oyaHFKZ0E&output=html">spreadsheet </a>I'm using to keep track of applications ready for promotion, the status and whose developers I've contacted with.</div>
<div><br></div><div>As previously agreed, all applications with enough votes and free of suspicious issues that are unmaintained will be auto-promoted. However we will need someone to do the promotion and, as you already know, our maintenance muscle is right now almost non existent.</div>
<div><br></div><div>In order to start the migration to self sustained infrastructure process, the Council contacted with X-Fade a few weeks ago, trying to obtain some administrative rights over current infrastructure. This way we would be able to improve our current maintenance status and start gathering a working group for administration tasks.</div>
<div><br></div><div>He agreed to grant the administrative rights to the repository web interface to merlin1991, as a first step in the handover process. Now we are just waiting him to actually give merlin1991 that permission so he could start doing some maintenance tasks on Fremantle repositories.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Once we have at least one administrator we could start tasks like this one for promotion of packages.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div><div class="gmail_quote">2012/7/19 Iván Gálvez Junquera <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ivgalvez@gmail.com" target="_blank">ivgalvez@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>Hi all,</div><div><br></div><div>So far, I have contacted with the maintainers of the following applications:</div>
<div><ul><li><b><font color="#009900">Wizard-mounter</font></b> </li><li>Cloudy Blue Sky Theme </li><li>
Arabic localization (free)</li><li>D-THEME Futureal</li><li><b><font color="#009900">Exult Digital Audio</font></b></li><li>LastGo</li><li>Granule</li><li>Hdrcapture</li><li><font color="#ff0000"><b>Lowlight </b>-> maintainer unreachable (no longer working at Nokia)</font></li>
<li>lockdaemon</li><li>Situare</li><li>D-THEME BlackAndRed</li><li><b><font color="#009900">N900-i18n-zh_HK</font></b></li><li><font color="#ff0000"><b>pebble-do </b>-> promotion rejected by maintainer</font></li><li>
woller</li>
<li>PSFreedom</li><li>grr</li><li>tvcplayer</li><li>InfoZIP's Zip</li><li><b><font color="#009900">nextalarm</font></b></li><li>K9 Call</li><li>Pidgin Extra Protocols (Bonjour and Sametime)</li><li>Noor Quran Viewer</li>
<li>Multilist</li><li>mprayertime</li><li><b><font color="#009900">qTraductor</font></b></li><li>tvbgone</li><li>Columbus Core Plugins</li><li>Columbus Navigation Toolkit</li><li>youtube-dl</li><li>DrLaunch</li><li>Wordpress</li>
<li>mbarcode-plugins-all</li><li>SyncEvolution</li><li>papertoss</li><li>clocksn900</li><li><b><font color="#009900">Crochik MyContacts</font></b></li><li>SomePlayer</li><li>SomeCover</li><li>CSSU Tuner</li><li>Series Watcher</li>
<li><b><font color="#ff0000">GPS Track Logger Widget</font></b>
<span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)">-> maintainer unreachable (no longer working at Nokia)</span></li><li><b><font color="#009900">Neverball</font></b></li></ul></div><div>Applications in bold green have been promoted to Extras, for the rest I haven't received answer so I assume (except for a few of the last emails recently sent) that they are unmaintained.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Most of them (as previously discussed) will be autopromoted.</div><div><br></div><div>And still working on it...</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">
2012/5/10 Iván Gálvez Junquera <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ivgalvez@gmail.com" target="_blank">ivgalvez@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Thanks for the feedback, I'll try to contact all the maintainers for packages that don't present any doubt. For those without active maintainers we could then ask X-Fade to promote them.<div>
<br></div><div>Regards.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/5/9 Marcin M. <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marmistrzmar@linux.pl" target="_blank">marmistrzmar@linux.pl</a>></span><div><div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I didn't experience any problem with qt-components. Even MeeGo apps such as Allegro (Polish app) work alright.<div>I only got segmentation fault with widgets gallery.<br clear="all">--<div>Marcin</div><div><div>
<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/5/9 Timo Härkönen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:timop.harkonen@gmail.com" target="_blank">timop.harkonen@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div>2012/5/9 Iván Gálvez Junquera <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ivgalvez@gmail.com" target="_blank">ivgalvez@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I don't know if you finally received the complete list as it seems that the message (due to the size of attached file) needed moderation.</blockquote></div><div><br>Yeah. it came through.<br><br>Most of them seem to be clear cases that could be promoted without further action. Might be good idea to hold the ones that have any negative votes back for further examination or remove from testing in case of clear issues. If some apps use the compatibility plugin then they use it. should work either way. afaik it's only a symlink anyway. otah it should be there for people who are not using cssu. We should not force people who are installing applications from extras to install cssu. But yeah, qt-components needs some more attention/testing. If it is not maintained then imo it needs a new maintainer before even thinking about promoting it.<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>Timo<br><br></font></span></div><div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
2012/5/7 Iván Gálvez Junquera <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ivgalvez@gmail.com" target="_blank">ivgalvez@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">OK, here is the complete list of applications that can be promoted. I still need to add the TMO relevant threads.<div>
<div>
<div><br>2012/5/7 Iván Gálvez Junquera <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ivgalvez@gmail.com" target="_blank">ivgalvez@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I supposed that the criteria for promoting a package had already changed to only require one tester vote (or was it two votes?). <div>
<br></div><div>Anyway I can see packages I voted for, that should be enabled to be promoted, as they have even two Tester votes, and yet are waiting to receive more votes.</div>
<div><br></div><div>In the meantime I'm collecting information about applications ready for promotion. </div><div><br></div><div>Please see the attached spreadsheet containing the details for applications that need their maintainers to push them into Extras. At this moment it only contains applications from the first QA page, I'll add the rest after receiving some feedback.</div>
<div><br></div><div>You can see that some applications, even with the criteria fulfilled, don't have many positive votes or have some negative votes that might worth to investigate.</div><div><br></div><div>I have included contact data for maintainers, but I have realized that most of them simply don't allow PM messages in their profiles, so the question is: how to contact with them?. I would also like to add the relevant TMO thread links and contact with the authors both by PM (or automatic message) and with a comment in TMO.<br>
<br>Regards</div><div><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/4/27 Timo Härkönen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:timop.harkonen@gmail.com" target="_blank">timop.harkonen@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail_extra">Hi<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">27. huhtikuuta 2012 21.04 robert bauer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nybauer@gmail.com" target="_blank">nybauer@gmail.com</a>></span> kirjoitti:<div>
<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail_extra">The threshold for promotion was already decided after mailing list and
tmo threads. I don't want to revisit that issue again except to
implement it. We didn't decide what to do with packages that have no
maintainer so we can discuss that some more.<div><div><br>
<br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br><br>
ok. no need to go back to it but imo we need to make a bit more noise
about the solution and make it happen. Is the solution documented to
wiki or something that we can refer to?<br>
<br>
As for the cases where packages are suck because there is no action from
maintainer possibilities basically are (imo) automatic promotions,
kicking them out of testing or the middle ground where we hand pick
packages that get promoted or kicked out (requires too much manual labor
imo). All solutions have their up and down sides. Personally I'm still
in favour of the automatic promotion. Say if the package has the needed
votes and no action from the maintainer within a week it geta promoted.
The maintainer could stop the promotion by down voting the package. it
that case other votes would be totally ignored. That might cause more
buggy stuff getting through but I don't see how that is worse than the
current stale mate.<br>
<br>
That would still leave the final big issue - lack of testers. I'd
actually like to see a bi-weekly IRC testing meeting that someone
proposed at some point. Basically something like two hours of chatting
on irc and going through the queue. Would at least help to get the more
problematic packages to test get through. IMO stuck queue thing needs to
be resolved first befere this kind of meeting would make sense.<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
-Timo<br> </font></span></div><div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 6:24 AM, Timo Härkönen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:timop.harkonen@gmail.com" target="_blank">timop.harkonen@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail_extra">Hi<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">27. huhtikuuta 2012 12.51 robert bauer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nybauer@gmail.com" target="_blank">nybauer@gmail.com</a>></span> kirjoitti:<div>
<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 8:00 AM, robert bauer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nybauer@gmail.com" target="_blank">nybauer@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I think Niels should be available to discuss. So ping him again and try to move this along. Thanks.<br><br>Rob<div><div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br><font color="#ff0000">Has there been discussion yet with Niels? Please let me know if there hasn't and I will push. Contact me if there are problems (other than the amount of testing to be done).<br>
<br>Rob<br></font></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br>I think the QA discussion got buried by the OBS thing so we need to reactivate this topic. How about if we collect all the provided input/ideas for a solution to the QA problem put them to the wiki, send a mail adventizing it to -developers, -community and a post on tmo. and set a date for a irc meeting to try get decicions made and things rolling with this?<br>
<br>Although the OBS move will eventually have an affect on QA as well but that doesn't help in the short term so we need to come up with something..<span><font color="#888888"><br><br>-Timo<br> </font></span></div>
<div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><font color="#ff0000"></font><br> </div><div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 6:19 AM, Iván Gálvez Junquera <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ivgalvez@gmail.com" target="_blank">ivgalvez@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Ok Rob, thanks.<div><div></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/3/26 robert bauer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nybauer@gmail.com" target="_blank">nybauer@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi,<br><br>You, demolition and ammyt should have supertester permissions now (except for vi_ since I couldn't find his garage account).<br><br>Rob <br><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 5:50 AM, Iván Gálvez Junquera <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ivgalvez@gmail.com" target="_blank">ivgalvez@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Rob,<br><br>I meant that even if you are able to grant tester permissions to me and more people without the administrator's help, we won't be able to promote packages that have already fulfil the criteria and are stacked in testing because their original maintainers are missing.<br>
<br>Regards<div><div></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/3/24 robert bauer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nybauer@gmail.com" target="_blank">nybauer@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Is there any reason we can't test the packages that still have a maintainer?<br><br>Rob<div><div><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Iván Gálvez Junquera <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ivgalvez@gmail.com" target="_blank">ivgalvez@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Rob,<br><br>I agree with you, but even though, how could we promote packages without their original maintainer pushing them?<br>
<br>Regards<div><div></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/3/16 robert bauer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nybauer@gmail.com" target="_blank">nybauer@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Niels, Henri,<br>Can you please reply?<br><br>Ivan,<br>I'll add the new supertesters if I can. It seems that testing refocus should start now. Will have to work out change in package promotion rules in the future since it seems Niels doesn't want to bother with maemo anymore. <br>
<br>Rob<div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 9:04 AM, robert bauer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nybauer@gmail.com" target="_blank">nybauer@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
There is just <a href="mailto:support@nemein.com" target="_blank">support@nemein.com</a>. Unfortunately, delay is not unusual these days - all you can do is wait.<br><br>Rob<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div></div>
<div>On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 4:25 AM, Iván Gálvez Junquera <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ivgalvez@gmail.com" target="_blank">ivgalvez@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div></div><div>Dear all,<div><br></div><div>As we haven't receive any answer from Henri or Niels, it would be probably not possible to arrange the IRC meeting today. We can try next week.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Rob, do you know any other contact for Maemo.org administration tasks?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Regards<div><div></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/3/6 Iván Gálvez Junquera <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ivgalvez@gmail.com" target="_blank">ivgalvez@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
OK, I obviously confused the terms as the QA list of packages at Maemo.org shows votes indicating the voter as "Tester" instead of "Supertester". In fact all the TMO discussion we already had, considered that Supertester would be a different role than Tester. You can see the discussion in this <a href="http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82374" target="_blank">thread</a>.<div>
<br></div><div>Correcting my previous email:</div><div><br></div><div><div><div><b>Rationale:</b></div><div>Lack of testers and maintainers for applications have derived in a lot of applications getting stuck at Extras Testing even if they are suitable for promotion.</div>
<div>We have even reach a situation in which most applications are not even promoted by their developers to Testing (from Devel) due to the difficulty to promote to Extras. The whole promotion system is perceived as useless.</div>
<div><br></div><div><b>Solution:</b></div></div><div>Considering that Maemo community is shrinking, we cannot continue with the actual process. We need to both fix some issues in the whole process of promotion and also grant more administrative privileges to Supertesters.</div>
<div><br></div><div><b>New members proposed as Supertesters:</b></div><div>These people have been suggested to become new Supertesters:</div><div><br></div><div>Demolition</div><div>vi_</div><div>ammyt</div><div>ivgalvez</div>
<div><br></div><div>Please any one else interested in become a new Superster send an email to this mailing list.</div><div><div><br></div><div><b>Proposed changes for the promotion process:</b></div></div><div>
This should be the easiest part of the changes that we are proposing.</div><div>
<div>- Promotion of applications from Testing to Extras should be automatic once the requirements are fulfilled. No need of maintainer to actively promoting the application.</div><div>This will allow orphaned applications to be promoted.</div>
<div><br></div></div><div>- Only one Supertester vote, enough to promote an application.</div><div><div>- Five User votes, enough to promote an application.</div></div><div><div>We are running out of man power.</div>
<div><br></div><div>All other criteria could be maintained as they are now.</div>
<div><br></div></div><div>Proposed new permissions/abilities for Supertesters:</div><div><div>- Add a new developer to maintainer list of any package.</div><div>- Delete a package from the repository.</div><div>
- Edit bugtracker link.</div>
<div>- Ability to promote a package not only from Testing to Extras but also from Devel to Testing.</div><div>- Ability to downgrade a package from Extras to Testing, and even to Devel. </div><div>- Ability to prevent automatic promotion of a package from Testing to Extras (to avoid popular but potentially dangerous app to be promoted automatically if reached the number of user votes needed).</div>
<div><br></div><div>So we should try to keep IRC conversation on how to achieve those points (already discussed at TMO).</div><div><br></div><div>Please Henri and Niels, can you provide any preference on when to have that meeting?</div>
<div><br></div>Regards</div></div><div><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/3/6 Andrew Flegg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:andrew@bleb.org" target="_blank">andrew@bleb.org</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
2012/3/6 Iván Gálvez Junquera <<a href="mailto:ivgalvez@gmail.com" target="_blank">ivgalvez@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
<div>><br>
> If creating a new role (Supertesters) could be problematic from an<br>
> administration point of view, I think we can simply grant more abilities to<br>
> already existing Testers.<br>
<br>
</div>Supertesters already exist. I think you need to be careful not to look<br>
like the current process is misunderstood when proposing changes :-)<br>
<div><br>
> - Only one Tester vote, enough to promote an application.<br>
> - Five User votes, enough to promote an application.<br>
<br>
</div>Is there a current role of "tester"? AIUI, there are two roles:<br>
<br>
* Logged in user<br>
* Supertester<br>
<br>
The "Testing Squad" and "testers" are just people, self-organising via<br>
this list, which commit to test multiple applications; even ones<br>
they're not usually interested in. They fit into the first role.<br>
<br>
"Supertesters" were introduced to deal with a bottleneck or stalemate<br>
to help get things over the hurdle which were somewhat niche and<br>
needed more testing.<br>
<br>
It would probably also be worth shining more light on this topic and<br>
linking up with the <a href="http://apps.formeego.org" target="_blank">apps.formeego.org</a> QA process so that similar<br>
missteps can be avoided for Harmattan apps. Fortunately, bergie &<br>
X-Fade are already intimately involved with the delivery there, but it<br>
might be worth engaging the wider development community who are<br>
affected by this kind of change.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<span><font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:<a href="mailto:andrew@bleb.org" target="_blank">andrew@bleb.org</a> | <a href="http://www.bleb.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bleb.org/</a><br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><span><font color="#888888">-- <br>Iván Gálvez Junquera<br>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><font color="#888888">-- <br>Iván Gálvez Junquera<br>
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<br></blockquote></div></div></div><span><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Iván Gálvez Junquera<br>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br>Iván Gálvez Junquera<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Iván Gálvez Junquera<br>
</div>