[maemo-developers] [maemo-developers] Nokia 770 sources...

[From: Alessandro Ikeuchi]

First, I don´t care about my tone, it´s a voice of a angry customer, IT´S THE FIRST TIME THAT I HEARD ABOUT THE SOURCE CODE. Even other members of this list never heard about it, so don´t come like my old daddy saying "hey kid, it was there all the time, below your nose in the About dialog box". I bought, I paid, if the product is far from my expectatives, I say to the world as I wish. There's a very know citation (perhaps unknow in Finland) that says "the client is always right". And this tone got worst because your brazilian fellows at Instituto Nokia de Tecnologia instead of showing me where the sources were, told me about docs, made inferences about my programming abilities and so on...
And IF YOU WERE FOLLOWING the list by now you would know my problem, but if my programming abilities concerns you, ok, let´s talk about it:

void gtk_text_buffer_insert_at_cursor(GtkTextBuffer *buffer, const gchar *text, gint len)

gtk_text_buffer_insert_at_cursor(mybuffer, "\u00E3", -1);

The function above doesn't work for unicode chars in Maemo, for normal GTK is perfect. But if my abilities are yet not as good as you think, let´s try something that doesn´t is programming at all..

Install bluetooth keyboard and use xmodmap, suppose this:

Xmodmap -e "keysym asciitilde = 228"

Doesn't solve my dead keys, but I exchange the tilde for Ä char. Well, works fine at console, but try to open Notes and hit the tilde key, nothing happens at all. But when I use the screenkeyboard dead keys are enabled, and NOBODY was able to tell me how if unicode is not supported.

So, dear finland guy, it´s not my INABILITY to adapt Maemopad that's frustrating me, is the INABILITY of Maemo to follow standards... And besides, take a sincere look at maemo repository and tell me how many good hildon programs are there. Only your sponsored fellows from Instituto Nokia are releasing, because port is quite difficult due lack of documentation and TRANSPARENCY FROM THAT TEAM.

Now, let´s quick respond all:

Osvaldo Santana: Your python package show as broken in my application manager, but the interpreter works. I suppose that even you are getting hardtime with hildon.

Antonio Gomes: I'll tell you what I deserve: I deserve transparency, I bought a open source powered product and I felt tricked when sources were not available. And my Nokia is not for sale, THANKS TO YOU I registered www.ihatenokia770.com, and my nokia will be the star. I'll dedicate for you, just wait a few more days...

Eduardo de Barros Lima: When good docs and tutorials appears, don´t bother with me, I'll read because I know where to find then, and I will know if they will be good ones or not.

And what I think about how hildon development:

-As you noticed just the brazilian guys where over me (without help, just for mention). I suppose that Nokia is developing Maemo at Instituto Nokia de Tecnologia, here, in Brazil. As you know, such enterprise requires money, sponsorship and so on. They are related to universities, so you can add ego and prestige in the equation. Well, if I am crazy and THE ONLY ONE BLAMING HILDON, that's ok, I alone lost my fuse... But many of you agree that hildon development is not satisfactory, so, sorry about my methods, but my patience was gone with this "land of happy lambs", where people are asking for new features instead for corrections. I don´t care if brazilians, africans or russians developes Maemo as long they do a good job. Indeed, this personal must be really prepared for Global Business.

-Second and most important: I am a normal guy, funds analyst from Santander bank (in fact, economist), so I am not related to competing firms, I am not sponsored. I work with mutual funds and asset management, so I am out the prestige/sponsorship/ego wheel that moves maemo. I am just a really pissed off user that is so frustrate that decided to register www.ihatenokia770.com to assure that everyone knows what is buying.

-And third and most important, all of you can rest assured that I am out, no more writing, I need to work and my english is quite horrible . Evebody has my mail, feel free to write for me.

To Devesh:
"In general I am happy to learn from your frustrations to improve maemo and maemo development experience."
Even disliking my tone, if you have the means to really improve, do it. More transparency, more enphasis about the source (I really was about to start questionate where GPL licenses applies) and more code. I am a former soldier and I think when you go to battle is to win (quickly, aggressively), this battlefield is already occupied and my voice echoed trough other persons really interested abou Nokia 770. I think that some people were more worried to keep things gray and opaque for personal reasons.

Nokia 770 is a great hardware, very promising and with the good appeal of a open source SO. I say that the hardware is perfect, just freely release the OS with more conviction.

End of file.

Alessandro




-----Original Message-----
From: Devesh Kothari [mailto:devesh.kothari at nokia.com] 
Sent: terça-feira, 29 de agosto de 2006 10:50
To: Alessandro Ikeuchi
Cc: maemo-developers at maemo.org
Subject: Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia 770 sources...


ext Alessandro Ikeuchi wrote:

> Ok, Maemo docs sucks, the SDK sucks and the Hildon stuff looks like a 
> colony of ants... I bought Nokia 770 because I believe OPEN SOURCE, 
> so, Nokia is using it, isn´t? Where are the sources? The lack of docs 
> could be covered by releasing the sources...
>
First I need to point out, I dont like the tone of this message as has been already pointed out in responses to this thread. As for the sources, from a legal stand point all required source is available through the maemo repository.

http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo2.0rc22/free/source/

Beside that if you check the "About Product" tab in ControlPanel->Device you will find out how you can request source code (which nokia is legally bound to provide) CD from Nokia

> I just wanted to build my own text editor with dead keys support for 
> my bluetooth keyboard, but even the Maemopad example doesn't work 
> properly (try to change font color).
>
I would appreciate if you could attach a log or some more information or file a bug in https://maemo.org/bugzilla

Usually we do run some round of test to atleast the example codes refered to in the tutorial.

> Unicode only works for the xterm, and worst, Notes does dead keys for 
> screen keyboard, so, why is so hard to adapt Maemopad for dead keys? 
> (by the way, I made a working version of Maemopad with GTK for my 
> Linux x86 box that works as planned, so I am sure that's not me...)
>
I think more of your agression is directed towards maemopad and your inability to modify and achieve your objectives. If that is the case, then I am quite sure the community would be happy to help you out, if you would be a bit more constructive, rather than a "shot everything down" kind of attitude.

> "Nokia 770 is Debian based, Alessandro, should be great!"... It´s a 
> piece of crap, I never used because I can´t find or port applications 
> of my interest... There´s no surprise that "REAL AND USEFUL 
> APPLICATIONS" never appears at maemo repository (with some exceptions)
>
Well  i think that is your perception (and in that you in your own right maybe justified). I myself love various adventure games not available for the device either, so I guess I would be justified in my own right to "shoot everything down too"

> MY SUGGESTION FOR THE NEXT RELEASE OF shitOS 2007:  Forget about 
> Hildon, forget desktop, give me a console based OS with Lynx, vim, 
> python (python for OS 2006 appears in Maemo 2.0 repository, forget it, 
> there´s no Python version for OS 2006, even the list isn´t properly
> updated) and UNICODE support, would be great if CURSES is available 
> too, or better, with a good framebuffer driver. It would spare Nokia
>
Nokia 770 OS 2006 introduces the debian package management, so if thats the way you want to go, I will certainly not come in your way. You could have asked the community to tell you a way to achieve that. I am quite sure, you can gain root and  open your favourite xterm and just apt-get remove packages you dont like. You are free to do all experimentation you like at your own risk. Please do post the findings of your results on the mailing list, I of one would be quite interested to know the result.

There are also other tools and documentation available on maemo which talks about customizing and building your own rootfs and kernel etc.

> budget and make the plataform usefull and with lots of space... 
> Besides, with a real open source OS and simple developing tools I 
> would try QTopia. The exceptions mentioned above are CONSOLE and X11 
> programs, as python, smallbasic, octave, gnuplot... If you are a 
> Hildon
>
I think there has been many flame wars about QT/GTK+, so I would not comment anymore. Maemo and Nokia 770(OS2006) is a GTK+ based device and application development environment. Either you accept that or not thats your choice. By all means experiment with different toolkits and technologies, and if they are done in constructive manner, I am quite sure, you would still find this developer list quite willing to listen and help.

> developer/mantainer pay attention: the best released applications are 
> Console based! With no fear, Hildon sucks and it's the weakspot of 
> Nokia 770...
>
There are very good reasons for us to extend and customize GTK+ which together with desktop components and services we call hildon. We are as a goal trying to push changes to mainstream (some will be accepted, some
wont) but you can follow the status on

http://maemo.org/maemowiki/MaemoGtk26Contributions

> Someone just confirm that I can´t get Notes sources and I'll sell my 
> useless Nokia 770 and buy Samsung Q1 (try this one if you don´t have 
> Nokia, believe me, the lower price of Nokia doesn't beat the ease of 
> development of a Win32 x86 platform, forget the "linux, open source 
> and free for all stuff", Nokia 770 is not that). And yes, I am pissed 
> off... I really bought Nokia 770 for my personal business purpose, 
> confident about the "debia
>
> based" OS... Hacks are good when works and when you have control 
> (sources), otherwise it's non sense time spending... (try to discover 
> why GTK API works in your Linux x86 and doesn't in OS2006 is a good 
> mental exercise if you have 18 hours free per day, because nobody 
> knows and you will never see the platform sources).
>
about the sources I have already responded above. About your frustrations about problems, its very difficult to infer anything useful to figure out what the problem is. So I would leave it at just your ranting.

> My opinion is clear: Nokia 770 won´t prevail with these development 
> policies. I won´t use it and I don´t recommend as plataform for 
> anyone, it's just a annoying gadget, do yourself a favor and buy a PSP 
> instead (at least runs win95 with bochs and have nice 3d games).
>
I have to say, as been often told on this list, we are learning and trying to improve. If only I get constructive comments. Other wise its just waste of time.  I agree a lot needs to be improved in terms of documentation, in terms of more visibility (especially proper handling of bugzilla) and trust me (if you can) we are trying to do so. Sardine does solve some issues in terms of quickes bugfix availability and visibility (though its still far from kind of aka debian unstable)

http://repository.maemo.org/sardine/


In general I am happy to learn from your frustrations to improve maemo and maemo development experience. Devesh

-

> Alessandro - unhappy owner of a nokia 770 since June/2006
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