[maemo-developers] Repositories mess: conclusions and actions

[From: Antonio Orlando]

I'm sorry, this is a long one, but I've done my best to be as clear as  
possible in order to avoid readers having to go on website and study a new  
system just to follow what I wanted to say, if the same concepts were  
written with few words as I could have done ;) So, please go with this  
last effort, I'll never bother you again with Zero Install advocacy after  
this one ;D
If someone can see the benefits, I gladly transfer this task to him/her.  
If there's no follow, maybe my worries are not a problem for anyone, so  
that's ok for me. Now:

I'd like to underline another important benefit for tablets which has not  
been mentioned:
No waste of storage (or we can call it "optimized usage of limited  
storage"). I think it's not necessary to say (but I'll say it to be sure!)  
this is especially useful on tablets because of their limited amount of  
storage space (no matter how big your card is, it will soon become too  
much small ;)

The current system can't provide simple and no-effort-from-user ways to  
put on storage just what *I* want of an application, so the  
developer/packager makes some guess and in a few questions install I'll  
find on my tablet lots of files that will never be accessed. Never. Well,  
saying "I'll find them" really is a little optimistic with the current  
approach, or at least it will require some poweruser skills, and some  
waste of time - not to say the danger! - to erase them manually (with  
Midnight Commander just to speedup the work a bit ;) of course praying  
everything will work anyway, whatever function of the app I'll use in  
future.

Zero Install solves this problem, allowing to execute "storage  
conservative" (or "network intensive", which is not a problem for an  
Internet Tablet device - and I'm speaking from south of Italy, were wifi  
hotspots are a rarity on the go, but that's our fault) zero-installations:  
this means that if I "zero launch" an application for the first time, the  
system downloads just the stuff required to execute it, filling only the  
minimal space on the card; when I try to use a component of that  
application which has not yet been downloaded, the system transparently  
downloads it and its dependencies (only those not already in), and the  
next time I'll use that with no wait for download.
E.g. if I don't want to install my locale files for the app because I like  
to use it in English, Zero Install fits this need allowing me to change my  
idea whenever I want, simply downloading them the first time I need to  
change the language from my app.
Same thing for docs.

So, summying up:

* current approach is to put on storage "what maybe I and other users will  
probably need", which often is very close to "everything" - too bad!

* Zero install approach allows user to emulate the current approach, but  
it also allows to put on storage only "what I (and not other users) do  
really need", flawlessly managing the lack of stuff in case it seems I  
need it.

> From a user point of view, "installing" means "download + press ok +
> wait a moment + go". It looks like the user experience wouldn't change,
> and in any case isn't bad at the moment (if the app works and the
> dependencies are satisfied etc).

It's true, but your sentence in parenthesis makes a big difference from a  
"problem" and a "no problem" scenario.
What if the app does not work, or dependencies are not satisfied, or -  
especially - "etc." ? :)
An example of bad user experience due to current system is the  
impossibility for me to update my Python runtime (2.5 - 0.4-8), if I not  
reflash the device (which I won't do by now, because the restore process  
is not the quick one which would be possible with Zero Install ;)

The Python for Maemo I think we'll agree is not an example of a bad  
mantained project, probably there are no problems at all from their side,  
but still problems arise for some reason, or for some other app's fault.
The project maintainer, L. M. Wolf (who seems a talented one), kindly  
analyzed some reports from me and another user crying for my same problem,  
but his best help for us was:

"" Everything seems ok with repositories. I think the problem is some  
installed application
"" that requires an exact version of python (e.g.: 2.5.0). And this may be  
blocking the update
"" process. The error message shown when you try to update  
python2.5-runtime doesn't mention
"" anything about this? I did some tests, installing an old python2.5  
version and doing the
"" update. No problems at all.
"" Luciano

I think this message underlines well some of the problems I'm trying to  
address. Of course the reply to his answer was "no" and so I continued  
using the old Python runtime. Probably L. M. Wolf with my tablet in his  
hands could solve the problem without refalshing, but I have no clue and I  
suspect the average user would be in no better position.

As explained by N. Hoglund in point 2. of his last message, Zero Install  
could easily overcome this issue, because one of its benefits is that  
every version of everything is allowed to stay happy on the device without  
interfering with others. It seems a kind approach, you know individual  
freedom is required to not limit others' freedom. At least, I could have  
tried the new shiny Python versions released meantime from INdT by now if  
only there had been a Zero Install feed for them :)

I said it was going to be long. Sorry again, bye

-- 
Antonio