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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> maemo-developers-bounces@maemo.org
[mailto:maemo-developers-bounces@maemo.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>ext Till
Harbaum<BR><B>Sent:</B> 16 September, 2009 15:16<BR><B>To:</B>
maemo-dev<BR><B>Subject:</B> How to use extras-testing
correctly?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Hi,<BR><BR>i have been asked to upload osm2go to extras-testing. It's not
quite clear to<BR>me how this is actually supposed to work. I see several
possibilities:<BR><BR>1) Just upload something. Others will do some testing
and i can upload <BR> a fixed version of they see problems. The new
version will then go though<BR> the same testing again. This is how i
think it was initially meant to work.<BR><BR>2) Upload only things that have
gone through my own testing to increase<BR> the likeliness that it will
go straight through testing without any problems.<BR> This is the way i
will use it.<BR><BR>I see several problems with 1):<BR><BR>- If something
broken doesn't pass the tests and i keep uploading new<BR> versions
people will likely get tired of me and my perhaps perfect <BR> version
will stay in testing forever because nobody wants to test my<BR> app
over and over again<BR><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
rather see it as a chance to try out the latest versions. And as a tester a way
to do my bit for the community. I'm not an excellent developer, but I can test
applications.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>And
you are right, broken stuff shouldn't pass into the hands of the average high
end consumer (because yes, the N900 will not only be in the hands of oss
hackers, but a lot of other people). That's why there's the testing
phase.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>People
most likely get tired if the application is of no use and broken. A repeated
upload of a broken "Hello world", might get disregarded soon. But something that
people consider usefull and that has been downloaded over 10 000 times... A
few broken versions in the middle will hardly matter.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Actually it would be worse to push those broken versions directly to
extras, that would hurt all those people, not just the
testers.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
social dynamics of the system will make sure that things get tested. If an app
gets a vote (up or down), others are likely to out of curiosity see what the
tester said, and maybe even try it out themselves.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009> </SPAN><BR>- If something broken
actually passes the testing things get even worse<BR> as a bug fix has
to go through testing again and the broken version will<BR> stay there
until the bug fix passes testing<BR><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Some
bugs will go through naturally. Perfect software doesn't exits. Don't even think
so.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
thing is that testing weeds out bugs that would be considered blockers or major
issues. I can live with a lot of minor issues, and I won't even notice them most
of the time. When I do, I'll report them as bugs.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009> </SPAN><BR>To me this means two
things: <BR><BR>1) don't update too often, so people/testers don't get
bored<SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009></SPAN> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Keeping changes to yourself increases the likelyhood that there are
issues that you don't find. The author of the software is never the best tester.
The best tester is completely independent, something which strangely enough we
can achieve in the community.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Release often and release early. It does not say release
broken.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Early
so that the tester knows what is coming in. The worst testing experience will be
the first time; new software, massive feature list and no base on which to
work.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Often so that the tester can check the changed </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>part fast
and that the delta doesn't grow too much from the previous
version.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009> </SPAN><BR>2) put some extensive
internal testing before promoting something<BR> to
extras-testing<BR><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Sure,
but which one do you like more, developing or testing?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If you
are one of the few people (I know two) who utterly love both, then test until
you think the test is exhaustive. Then give out and let others test
too.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>However my guess (and experience) is that people who write oss software
love developing more than testing. Extras-testing provides testing as a service
to the developer.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009> </SPAN><BR>This also means that i
will delay the promotion of osm2go as i am currently <BR>running my own
tests.<BR><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Well,
right now is a special time. There is practically no hardware available (some
developer units in the hands of Nokia personnel and a few selected people).
Right now it is hard to get ten votes at all. That just happened 30 minutes ago
for the first time (rootsh 1.5 is considered good for extras, a fitting package
to go first).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>And
there is no stopping people from keeping their stuff in extras-devel for as long
as they want.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Once
there is hardware available, I think that the limit is the quaranteen time that
the app has to stay in extras-testing. Knowing the community, my guess is that
there will be enough testers for the apps. (some people code well, others like
to test)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009> </SPAN><BR>I somehow think this is
not the way it should work ... Any ideas how to use<BR>it in a more efficient
way?<BR><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
idea is to make sure that the end user gets good software.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=378433912-16092009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Tero</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV><SPAN
class=378433912-16092009> </SPAN><BR>Till<BR><BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>