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Hi,<br>
<br>
On 22/09/10 16:40, ext Felipe Crochik wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:C468C860C00B4A76B843CD0A222FBA5D@windows7"
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<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">We had this
discussion not long ago (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/maemo_qa_process/?org_openpsa_qbpager_net_nemein_discussion_posts_page=1">http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/maemo_qa_process/?org_openpsa_qbpager_net_nemein_discussion_posts_page=1</a>)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I think the
“appdownloader”
has most of features we need to help users find, install, test and
review
applications. If we also add to the appdownloader reminders like “you
installed xxxx 10 days ago, how would you rate it?” we would have a
much
more effective process. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">An initial
(to do) list (comments anyone?):<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color: navy;"><font face="Arial"
size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">I assume appdownloader is
open source but I would contact the developer to see if he is
interested on taking the application to the “next level”. We also need
someone on the server side to help.</span></font></li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
here is the developer ;) I'm definitely interested in taking it to the
next level. In the planning meeting last week, I promised to give an
overview, what I have planned in form of a wiki page. I will do that
latest until Friday.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:C468C860C00B4A76B843CD0A222FBA5D@windows7"
type="cite">
<div class="Section1">
<ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color: navy;"><font face="Arial"
size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">add extras-testing to
appdownloader (probably requires changes on the server). Application
would only show “testing applications” if the repository is enabled.</span></font></li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
There is a new API on the server, which supports that. Back-end changes
have to be done for this on the client side, and of course some
additions to the UI.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:C468C860C00B4A76B843CD0A222FBA5D@windows7"
type="cite">
<div class="Section1">
<ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color: navy;"><font face="Arial"
size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">show the source of the
package and optionally allow to filter “only extras” <o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color: navy;"><font face="Arial"
size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">automatically add
comments from appdownloader to the application test page</span></font></li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Have to talk to Niels about that. Would make sense.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:C468C860C00B4A76B843CD0A222FBA5D@windows7"
type="cite">
<div class="Section1"><br>
<ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color: navy;"><font face="Arial"
size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">still have some “official
testers” feedback required… most users won’t care about the “qa
checklist” but I think their feedback should be as important on
deciding if the application gets promoted or not. <o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color: navy;"><font face="Arial"
size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">add “desktop” and close
buttons to appdownloader (please?)<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color: navy;"><font face="Arial"
size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">remember credentials so
user does not have to login again?</span></font></li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Will be there.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:C468C860C00B4A76B843CD0A222FBA5D@windows7"
type="cite">
<div class="Section1">
<ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color: navy;"><font face="Arial"
size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">keep track of the
applications that the user has installed. Show reminders every “x” days
after installation<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color: navy;"><font face="Arial"
size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Maybe integrate
appdownloader to FAP? Anything we can do to make easier to install
applications using appdownloader<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Uhh...I see it is urgent to create that wiki page ;) But let me do that
this week and then I will start a separate discussion on that, and we
can think on distributing the work, which has to be done.<br>
<br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:C468C860C00B4A76B843CD0A222FBA5D@windows7"
type="cite">
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Sorry for
repeating myself but I really
believe we may have a solution we can actually implement and help a lot
with
this issue and some others. It is great to have more applications but
it is
getting harder every day to find them and decide to install or not.</span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote cite="mid:C468C860C00B4A76B843CD0A222FBA5D@windows7"
type="cite">
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Felipe<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">
<hr tabindex="-1" size="2" width="100%" align="center"></span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:maemo-developers-bounces@maemo.org">maemo-developers-bounces@maemo.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:maemo-developers-bounces@maemo.org">mailto:maemo-developers-bounces@maemo.org</a>] <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Attila Csipa<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday,
September 22,
2010 8:58 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Polyvertex<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:maemo-developers@maemo.org">maemo-developers@maemo.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: Package
promoting</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Polyvertex
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:polyvertex@gmail.com">polyvertex@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<blockquote
style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color rgb(204, 204, 204); border-width: medium medium medium 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
I think the maintainer should always have the ability to promote the<br>
package to extras by himself and take the risk of being under fire<br>
from users if he promote a very bad/bugged release and did not took<br>
enough time to resolve issues. This may also be added to the Karma<br>
system if this is not already done.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
Generally, that was the setup with the N8x0 and Maemo4.x, so we have
tried that
- IMO this works better (occasional developer frustration
notwithstanding) from
a user standpoint, so let's not backpedal on that - do everything to
make it
simpler for developers, but do not sacrifice users in the process.
Reflashing
might be trivial for some, but a serious endeavour for others.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">> A
secret weapon is
in the making - KISStester, which would allow easier<br>
> feedback for users, and it also acts as a REMINDER for people who
are
using<br>
> software that is in dire need of testing (the problem is that
people<br>
> *download* things from testing but forget/can't be bothered to
come BACK
to<br>
> vote on it).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Well...
As both of us
said : most of the time, users don't vote. This<br>
is why the promoting process is way too constraining : it does not<br>
take users behavior into account at all...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
We'll see the effects when KISStester lands. The point is that ofter
people
don't even *know* they are downloading the version from extras-testing
(since
H-A-M does not show that info - and they might have installed it before
it was
promoted to extras-testing), they are forgetful, etc. So it's not like
99.999%
of users don't care, it's just the process that is awkward for most. If
we as
much as double user response by flashing a 'hey, you have used this app
from
testing for N days now, care to give some feedback ?' in notifications
(or 'you
have uninstalled an app from extras-testing, was there something wrong
with it
?'), that would already be big help. At that point the biggest concern
will be
educating people of leaving *good* feedback, but if we have bad
results, we can
always disable the vote-part and just leave comments - that can be very
helpful, too.<br>
<br>
PS also for feedback - I often see for example problems being reported
on talk
- that goes to show that people are not comfortable with leaving
comments
within the testing process, so silence in testing does not necessarily
mean all
is well (but it does mean the process needs refining).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">Best regards,<br>
Attila<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
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