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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Attila, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I don’t disagree with you that “average
user” vote is not the same as someone trying to follow a QA script and
validate the application but I think we have more than one goal/question:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=1>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Is
the application useful? I think the “average user” is the
better equipped to answer this question so getting as many votes/comments
from the “average community” definitely helps.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Is
the application safe for the system? Here the average user will not have
much to help but I still think that having a bunch of “power users”
report “it has bugs”, “it crashes my system” will
be a good starting point.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>What
application do I want to install? What new applications are out there that
I don’t know about? These are questions that other people’s
reviews would help. Why not have all in one place and make it really
easier for the user to give feedback.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
</ol>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I was about to ask what “kisstester”
was… I didn’t know there was another application on the works. But
as much as I value the testers job and opinions I think one of the big issues
seems to be that “the demand is higher than the resources”. Also, I
can’t see why bringing more information to the system can hurt…. It
is up to us to decide how that information affects the promotion system but I
think as a user I would like to know as much as I can about other people
experiences with the applications. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Back to the promotion business, I have
some questions I would like to raise:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=1>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Right
now there is not distinction between a new version of the package and the
first one. I understand a previous version being approved should not be “guarantee”
for a new release but it got help some. The worst case scenario for me is:
one application gets approved on testing but has some big problem…
The developer fixes the problem in a matter of minutes but it will take
another 10-20 days to have it out there. A simple idea on how to improve is
to have someway to communicate to the “testers” of the
previous version about that and they would prioritize reviewing the new
version.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>After
you promote a package to extras-testing and before it is approved or
rejected you can’t promote a new version of the package. When the “testing”
process can take a long time there is a good chance a new version will be
available before the last one was “voted”. I don’t
pretend to know an answer here but I see a problem: developers will just
promote to testing right after uploading to devel to save a place on the queue
(defeating the purpose of extras-devel), or they will not promote a new
version of their application that supposedly is better than the previous
on “testing” because this will reset the clock. I understand
the focus should not be the developer but I think the users will suffer on
both cases. <o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Anything
we can do to check for user’s privacy vulnerabilities on the QA. Again,
I don’t have an answer but I think it is potentially more important
than things like having 20% of the files here or there. Of course, much
more difficult to check for too… <o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
</ol>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>By no means I want to reduce the merit of
the “testers” but even they will miss what a “larger user
base” would see. I think the testers should be the “rejecters”
and not the “approvers”. They would be in charge of checking for
the minimum set requirements and where the application is a danger to the user.
The community would be the positive stimulus … enough good and none bad
the application is ready!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Felipe<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
attila.csipa@gmail.com [mailto:attila.csipa@gmail.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Attila Csipa<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, September 22,
2010 10:28 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Felipe Crochik<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Polyvertex;
maemo-developers@maemo.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: Package promoting</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Felipe Crochik <<a
href="mailto:felipe@crochik.com">felipe@crochik.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div link=blue vlink=blue>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>We had this discussion not long ago (<a
href="http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/maemo_qa_process/?org_openpsa_qbpager_net_nemein_discussion_posts_page=1"
target="_blank">http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/maemo_qa_process/?org_openpsa_qbpager_net_nemein_discussion_posts_page=1</a>)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>I think the “appdownloader” has most of features we
need to help users find, install, test and review applications. If we also add
to the appdownloader reminders like “you installed xxxx 10 days ago, how
would you rate it?” we would have a much more effective process. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
Inevitably, the question will pop-up, why did I made KISStester and not extend
appdownloader or FAP ? I think both projects are excellent and wish they grow
and prosper. BUT. I am really curious if I would want *that* sort of generic
feedback in the testing queue. While having a separate app for it reduces the
potential number of users, IMO it increases the chances of higher quality/SNR
feedback or votes, meaning that we will be getting votes/comments from people
who DID install the feedback software, it's not something sprung onto them by a
(undoubtedly good, but) generic application installer. My target are the people
who are willing to participate, have at least a rough understanding what they
are getting into. Ideally QA is not about maximizing number of voters, but SNR.
If we gain just a few dozen regular feedback persons, KISStester already did
it's job.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Attila<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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