[maemo-users] N810 is here

From: Krischan Keitsch krischan.keitsch at alumni.tu-berlin.de
Date: Fri Oct 26 01:17:32 EEST 2007
Am Donnerstag, 25. Oktober 2007 schrieben Sie:
> Krischan Keitsch schrieb:
> > Am Donnerstag, 18. Oktober 2007 schrieb Ralph Angenendt:
> >> John Rudd wrote:
> >>> Kahlil Johnson wrote:
> >>>> Wow, still no OGG.... when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares
> >>>> about AAC, give us OGG.
> >>>
> >>> Huh.  I have many AAC files.  I have no OGG files.  Why should even
> >>> remotely care about OGG?
> >>
> >> How weird. I have no AAC files but a big bunch of ogg files, why should
> >> I even remotely care about AAC?
> >>
> >> IOW: What is the point you are trying to make?
> >>
> >>> Or is this one of those "you absolutely need it for interesting content
> >>> in Europe, but it's absolutely useless for content in the Americas"
> >>> type situations?
> >>
> >> Huh? What does it have to do with America/Europe? It's about *open* and
> >> *free* music codecs - neither AAC nor MP3 are free.
> >>
> >> And I don't really see the problem with supporting *also* ogg.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Ralph
> >
> > I couldn't agree more!
> Well, me too, though I think the issue is a little tight to the
> hardware. As you know the TI-DSP inside the TI-CPU is heavily used for
> decoding multi-media stuff.
> Most if the used codecs are heavily patent and license contaminated.
> This is not only a problem for Nokia but for all hardware manufacturers
> that want to deal with this kind of stuff. The process is tedious, long
> and hard to a) implement the codecs in a non-patent-vialoating way (i.e.
> follow the patent) and afterwards licensing (try to find out what an MP3
> decoder will cost and you know my point here).
> So what most manufacturers do, since they are not the first ones to make
> this stuff, they rely on third parties to figure out all that stuff for
> them and then just buy the package.
> So what I assume what has happened is that Nokia simply bought/licensed
> a pre-configured package of codecs for the TI DSP. They will probably
> not have developed the codecs themselves, just the interface to them.
> This way they only have very little influence on the codecs, their
> number or which codecs they get. The most popular ones are of course
> included, like MP3 and AAC.
> But since there is no money to make with sublicensing OGG-Vorbis, there
> will only be little to none suppliers for a ready made TI-DSP OGG-Vorbis
> codec engine. So it did not make it into the product.
> The licensing argument that came up in another thread is probably just a
> misunderstanding. It could be meant like "Since Nokia had to choose that
> package due to licening issues they were not able to individually pick
> additional codecs like Ogg". Some take-it-or-leave-it deal.
That sounds like a plausible explanation. Sad but true.

> That's my view on the status quo.
> Concerning the future I think that TI and Nokia could do more to help
> the community to fill the gap. There would be the possibility for the
> community to do this development on their own, i.e. write a DSP
> application doing OGG decoding. I can remembder that someone on the -dev
> mailinglist started this but cannot remember the name anymore, sorry.
> What Nokia could do to help here is to push TI more to release more
> development information to interested DSP core developers (and to the
> public of course). There is a DSP SDK available from TI, but buried down
> somewhere on some development page for which you have to sign up first
> before being able to download. The license agreement you have to sign
> during the process is anything than clear and might suggest that your
> are not allowed to develop something with this version that you intent
> to redistribute (even open source) - so only for internal evaluation.
> For a real developer license you have to buy the quite expensive
> software development kit. So also an official statement from TI would be
> needed that this SDK version can be used for open source development and
> that the resulting work can be freely distributed in source code and
> binary form. Only then Nokia can pick this up and include it in future
> products.
> Again this is my personal view from what I read on the MLs and from my
> experience with companies and licening...
> > Krischan
> Cheers
>   nils faerber
Ogg vorbis / tremor is just one of many codex. So the problem is more general. 
It is about a closed device on the internet tablets with rarely any 
information available. 
I acknowledge the commitment from Nokia towards open source and if they could 
they would have released the necessary information yet. They are caught in 
the constrains like many other companies.

I keep that in mind but I still ask them to release specs and info's! I take 
their commitment toward open source serious.

The Openmoko project has a diffrent approach: They try (at least) to use only 
hardware with open source drivers or at least freely available specs. That 
makes it a open platform (without a dsp btw) ;-)

The world is neither 1 nor 0 - there is something in between. 


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