[maemo-developers] How to destroy your community

From: tero.kojo at nokia.com tero.kojo at nokia.com
Date: Thu Jan 21 17:47:32 EET 2010
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Stephan Jaensch [mailto:sj at sjaensch.org]
> Sent: 21 January, 2010 14:24
> To: Kojo Tero (Nokia-D/Helsinki)
> Cc: maemo-developers mailing-list
> Subject: Re: How to destroy your community
> Hi Tero,
> Am 21.01.2010 um 12:56 schrieb <tero.kojo at nokia.com>
> <tero.kojo at nokia.com>:
> > There are problems sure, that bit is apparent. Do you really think
> any party (community, admins, ISP, me) is right now happy at how the
> ISP has handled the case? No.
> Well then, what is being done to make sure something like this doesn't
> happen again? And just for clarity: I don't see the ISP being the root
> cause of the problem here. The question is: how could "roughly fifteen
> blades, a few teras of netapp" end up at such a bad ISP? Isn't it
> common sense to use an ISP that one has prior experience with and
> hopefully a known contact? Who made this decision? Was that person fit
> (qualified) to make this decision? If not, is he still responsible for
> these kinds of decisions?

Large publicly listed companies have very strict rules when using money. There's even a law about it in the USA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes_oxley) That has the implication that a listed company cannot buy from wherever, and that limits the choices considerably.

To have some other instance run the servers would be perfect. However as stated somewhere earlier in this thread, there is no entity that could make legally binding contracts on behalf of the community.

So the solution right now is to talk more to the ISP to get the issue fixed and make sure that they understand the nature of maemo.org (the site and the community). And point to the simple fact that the SLA has an uptime number which they themselves agreed to.
> Getting that "somewhere" is obviously not the issue at all, for the
> right price. And I'm guessing money is not the issue either. So it's
> just about having someone who has experience and the right contacts in
> this regard to make the proper choice.

Somewhere is the issue. The list of places is limited. Contacts will not help. This naturally applies only to large publicly listed companies.
> I don't think that I'm ranting. I'm trying to get to the root of the
> problem here. This might be an important discussion since it's possible
> not all of us agree about the root cause.

No you are making a good discussion. I appreciate it. But people's feelings seem to be generally running hot in this thread.
> Jeff was shouting? I would rather characterize him as one of the (if
> not the) most valued community contributors in regards to maemo.org
> infrastructure. Just take a look at http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba.
> He was the only one (!) being able to provide maemo.org repository
> access during the server move. I think he has proven that he is capable
> and can be trusted.

I agree, Jeff is a guy who can do things. He definitely is nice to have around.
Trusted, maybe you are right. I have no idea. Not my call either.

> So tell me Tero, what are the criteria for getting root access? Is this
> a community, i.e. a meritocracy?

It is a community issue, you need to ask the community.

Personally I do not have shell accounts (let alone root) on any maemo.org machine. I wouldn't deserve them, I'm not a sysadmin. And neither can I invent any good reason to ask for them.

If you have been here long enough, you know that in the beginning (four-five years ago) maemo.org was pretty much run by Nokia. That all has been changing slowly but surely. And nowadays maemo.org is community run. Sure Nokia sponsors the servers, but as said there is no other entity to do that right now.

> > it's not a kindergarten.
> Exactly, it is not. It's high time people started being accountable for
> their performance.

Yes, that's why there are legal agreements called contracts in place.

But those do not prevent technical failures, they only make sure that there are penalties for cases where things have not gone as agreed. And penalties do not generally make anyone happy. So the solution is to work more with the ISP to make sure they get things fixed and right.

And the people who do admin work for the community are pretty much working their ass off right now, as they have for the past two months.
I'm not quite sure everyone understands that there are about two people doing admin work in maemo.org, and what services the site has overall.

> > Please show up at the next monthly sprint meeting and take some tasks
> to improve things then. How much time and energy are you willing to
> pitch in personally?
> I'll be there. How much responsibility are you willing to give away?

Good to hear!
Responsibility is not mine to give away. Ask the council, Niels or Ferenc at the meeting. I am sure there is no end of small tasks that could be done.


> Cheers,
> Stephan
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