[maemo-users] App-Manager failure

From: Ryan Abel rabelg5 at gmail.com
Date: Mon Nov 24 18:45:37 EET 2008
On Nov 24, 2008, at 11:05 AM, Mark wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 6:37 AM, Eero Tamminen <eero.tamminen at nokia.com 
> > wrote:
>>> If you're going to sell a device that requires significant Linux  
>>> knowledge
>>> to use, that should be clearly stated in any sales information.
>> You're mailing on the "maemo-users" list, which in its
>> "sales information":
>>       https://lists.maemo.org/mailman//listinfo/maemo-users
>> states that it's:
>>       "A list for users of maemo Development Platform."
>> (It's a bit confusing name.)
> As a matter of fact, it's not just confusing, it's inaccurate. As
> maemo.org is where all tablet users are pointed to get new apps and
> updates for their tablets, it's not just a development environment,
> it's the platform. A list that is strictly for developers should be
> named "maemo-app-developers", because they use the maemo environment
> to develop apps.

It's plenty clear and correct as it actually stands (the website  
needing to be updated is another issue). maemo-users is for users of  
Maemo, maemo-developers is for developers of Maemo and Maemo  

> Really the fundamental problem is that the consumer-oriented stuff
> (apps, updates, wiki) should never have been part of the maemo site.
> It should be part of ITT or some other site with a completely
> different name. The way it's been done is bizarre and can't possibly
> be anything other than confusing.

Well, no, the fundamental problem is that "maemo" was originally the  
development platform (not the whole platform, or the OS), so maemo.org  
was where developers went to do developer things. Somebody who used  
"maemo" was a developer, thus maemo-users. Then things shifted, and  
maemo.org started focusing on more than just developers and "maemo"  
started referring to more than the development platform.

Problem is, there was a period where the community usage and Nokia's  
intended usage didn't quite sync up (notice they never referred to the  
firmware shipped with the tablets as "maemo", only "Internet Tablet  
2006" or "Internet Tablet OS 2008" or "OS2008"). Then Nokia decided  
that they wanted to use the maemo trademark, and maemo became Maemo,  
OSSO became Maemo Software, and the community picked up maemo.org.

So, today:

Maemo: the platform
Maemo Software: a division within Nokia working on Maemo
maemo.org: the home of the Maemo Community

> The maemo site is also much more useful and usable than ITT. But then,
> that's further evidence that the devices are aimed at developers even
> though they are marketed to consumers...

Er, no, it's evidence that itT is a web forum with some extra stuff  
sort of half-heartedly slapped on it and a user-base not very  
interested in maintaining its wiki.

maemo.org is the home of the Maemo Community, where anybody interested  
in participating in the community should go. Nokia will be shifting  
the official development (particularly commercial development) stuff  
to Forum Nokia and the real user stuff to maemo.nokia.com.

Forum Nokia for commercial developers
maemo.nokia.com for real users (i.e., the ones who don't know Linux  
that concern you so much)
maemo.org for community activity, and users and developers who want to  
do interesting things with their devices

It should all become clear as these new sites go live, as it's really  
quite simple and not particularly confusing at all.

> But that's not what we're talking about anyway. The point was who the
> Tablets are marketed to, not the mailing list itself. At this point in
> time, no average PDA user is going to have much success with the
> Tablets without learning a bunch of Linux and getting their hands
> dirty under the hood. That's hardly consumer-friendly.

The tablets aren't really _marketed_ to anybody, as Nokia doesn't  
actually market them. I've yet to see anybody convincingly back up the  
claim that a "bunch of Linux" is required to use the device "as  
advertised", but this argument seems to be made up mostly of emotion,  
and I've had it more times than I care to remember, so I'm quite  
certain I know what the result of this one will be. Feel free to prove  
me wrong, though.

Ryan Abel
Maemo Community Council chair

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