[maemo-developers] Public maemo repository

[From: Kees Jongenburger]

On 7/30/07, Daniel Stone <daniel.stone at nokia.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 27, 2007 at 09:14:09PM +0200, ext Kees Jongenburger wrote:
> > > Er, how is this different from Debian, where you have a number of
> > > package descriptions and task definitions that sbuild/buildd/debuild
> > > uses to build?  (Bearing in mind that debian/rules is a Makefile, and
> > > thus infinitely flexible.)
> >
> > What kind of step does a "user" have to take between creating it's own
> > package and the sbuild/buildd/debuild aproach? isn't this hole
> > open-source thingy about giving power to the user?
>
> It depends entirely on the tools.  You could easily construct an
> improved dh_make that required no editing of any files at all.  It has
> nothing to do with the packaging system itself, as cdbs's three-line
> debian/rules files have shown.
Hi

I am really not trying to be annoying or anything I really am trying
to understand.
>From my point of view as "user" as you call them has no access to the
sbuild/buildd/debuild system, they get an sdk and that's it, Creating
an
improved dh_make , recompiling the package to use the thumb
instruction set or not, are simply not part of the things that can be
done (or am i missing the big picture?)


> > > Sounds like a recipe for crap packages to me (maybe OE's are good, I
> > > don't actually know).  If you want incredibly basic skeleton packages,
> > > just use the dh_make template and ignore them, and the packages won't be
> > > any good.  If you want to fix them up so they conform to policy, are
> > > more generally useful, are split as they should be, etc, then you'll
> > > need to spend time on your packages.
> >
> > If you are using dh_make you are not using the "power" of the existing
> > debian packages and you are in trouble
>
> Who was saying this?  Using dh_make is fine.  If you want your packages
> to be good, then you should clean up the template a bit, yes.
I guess it's fine as long as it's you own software you are packaging.
I understand that one must put some effort in packaging. I was
referring to the "missing"  libs like some sdl packages or  sqlite3
etc. I you run dh_make on those
your a in trouble since different packagers will give the libs
different names/options.
Again am i missing the big picture or how do I get sqlite3 in maemo?

>
> > if you don't use dh_make and try to use upstream packages + patches
> > you are in trouble because you are creating the chaos youself, You are
> > also prooving that  the initial "source" packaging was not sufficient
> > for your need
>
> I don't see what you mean here?

This is again about the differences between maemo .deb packages and
mainstream packages they are not the same and maemo as community does
not provide a place to upload those changes/patches. When nokia
chooses to create a new distro people are constantly trying binnay
packages of exiting app that where ported earlyer in the hope it sill
works. IMHO not an optimal solution

>
> > > This is no different from ebuilds, spec files, or any packaging system
> > > I've ever used.  The only difference is that debian/ tends to be a
> > > little more verbose for the skeleton case.  But the core is the same: if
> > > you want crap packages, then you can easily create them in any packaging
> > > system.  If you want good packages, then you need to spend a bit more
> > > time.
> >
> > I think there is a big difference between those systems. Me as
> > developer ,I have the same tools as you the packager (as I tend to
> > call people who create packages)
> > bsd ports,gentoo portage and oe contain meta packages.
> >
> > lets' face it what good did the packaging bring maemo until now? I
> > don't understand I am still waisting my time with this packaging
> > issue.
>
> The possibly to derive from an existing system, not having to invent our
> own packages or tools to solve problems that have already been taken
> care of long ago?

:P I understand but just try to be on "my" side for a few minutes. I
am experiencing
the complexity of the debian packaging with the tweaks required for
the maemo platform. I was not born as debian developer. I really did
not care about repositories, free non-free stable unstable . I did not
care about arch, I did not ask for dh_make. dpkg-xxx. All I really
want is to be able to share software, and improve existing software
for the arm platform (like sdl). The current packaging does not make
it easy to do either. I hope that this will improve in the future.
just having a public maemo repository is not enough.


Greetings