[maemo-community] maemo.org redesign

From: Tim tim at samoff.com
Date: Fri Oct 10 15:15:31 EEST 2008

	Any thoughts on the new rev (my comments below)? 



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 ----- Original Message -----
 Subject: RE: maemo.org redesign
 From:  Tim 
 To: "quim.gil at nokia.com" ,"dneary at maemo.org"
,"maemo-community at maemo.org" 
 Date: 10/09/2008 7:43 am

	From Quim: 

	> PS1: max width vs flexible width......You can find good and bad
 > implementations for both cases. 

	Yes. While I prefer fluid in _most_ cases -- especially those with
lots of flowing text... Some of my favorite designs are fixed -- and

	> PS2: why the urge to avoid anything similar to the current

	As this process (redesign, etc.) has progressed, I've been leaning
toward Quim's viewpoint on this one (as you can see in my design).
Sure, we don't want the *same* site. That's why we are doing this. But
similarities are fine -- and maybe even preferable. 

	> ...the main thing and graphic designers can start trying to
implement THE
 > layout before us driving them mad (as we are doing with the poor

	I'll send Nokia my therapy bill. :p 

	From Thomas: 

	First, Thomas, thanks for involuntarily allowing us to use you as a
"slug" in these mockups! ;) 

	> * The yellow triangle on the left of "Not logged in" makes it look
 > like a link... 

	You're right. Thanks for changing it. I will in my next rev as well.

	> * Is the search box on the top going to be a drop-down list? 

	As per Quim's suggestion: Yes. I'll try to indicate this better with
a supplimentary graphic for the next rev. 

	> my cheap-ish Gimp skills 

	Whatever. :p 

	Next version:  

     	*Added "Get Help" to top-right navigation     	*Removed big
buttons from main content area     	*Created supplimental search
functionality example:

	Keep in mind that while there is a "right sidebar" area in this
mockup, it still _does_ fit within the main browser window. So, in
that regard, the info will always be viewable. 

 Weblog ~ http://tim.samoff.com[5]
 Kidblog ~ http://kc.samoff.com[6]
 Photography ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/timsamoff[7]
 Film ~ http://www.youtube.com/timsamoff[8] ----- Original Message
 Subject: RE: maemo.org redesign
 From:  quim.gil at nokia.com 
 To: dneary at maemo.org,tim at samoff.com,maemo-community at maemo.org
 Date: 10/08/2008 11:17 pm
 Hi, answers based on
 > The guy who comes to the site to get help with a problem - 
 > where will he click?
 He would go to the search (not a coincidenc that I was proposing a
 "support" segmentation by default) or perhaps he would look at the
 shortcut we have for him in the top right column. Or perhaps we have
 a dedicated item for him in the top riht navigation bar.
 You don't need to add thick buttons to offer Help/Support. Your guy
 needs help but it is safe to suppose that he is not being chasedby a
 crocodile or having a heart attack. People is used to search engines
 nowadays. Besides, usually web services have an option for
 in their navigation areas and the footer. 
 > The guy who wants to find out how he can help, or how he can 
 > give feedback - where does he click?
 "Get involved", "Contact" or similar words can be used either in the
 navigation bar or the shortcuts. If we loose someone's feedback
 he didn't find the thick icon after 0,3 seconds then perhaps that
 feedback or contribution wouldn't have been that big anyway.
 > I think we definitely need to address this use-vase 
 > prominently - right now, he has maybe 5/6 links to consider: 
 > "Mailing lists", "Documentation", "Users united", "Bugzilla",
 This is why I didn't start on purpose the debate about what items in
 navigation and what shortcuts. This belongs to a next level of
 discussion. Sining off the first discussion by agreeing that we will
 have a nav bar, a shortcuts list and no thick buttons in the middle
 the screen would help moving forward.
 > I still think it's a mistake to have Bugzilla, wiki, mailing 
 > lists on the front page. Garage doesn't mean anything to 
 > someone who's not already a community member. I'm not sure 
 > that "Documentation" makes sense as a front page link, because 
 > you have 3 types of documentation:
 I agree and I'm not sure either about documentation. But can we
 hold on all those parallel debates around texts/words until we agree
 the main thing and graphic designers can start trying to implement
 layout before us driving them mad (as we are doing with the poor
 'Lorem ipse...' is widely used in graphic design for a reason.
 > There are elements of this design I really like - I do think 
 > it's promising, but I think we need to have the "solve a 
 > problem", "developer", "downloads", "news" "get involved" 
 > prominent on the home page.
 Navigation bar + shortcuts. Nobody said one of these or both
 be "prominent on the home page". I don't think fat buttons in the
 of the screen serve a better purpose.
 > On the new design, Downloads and 
 > News are really well represented, and we've dropped the links 
 > for solving problems and getting involved to some extent.
 I like how Tim has integrated the "Get Involved" part in his last
 > And "Development" has been reduced to one small link in the top
 And what is the problem if this is the place where developers are
 to find the link for them? (again, plus the footer). You are in a
 software platform website and you have a home full of software apps
 related news. It is obvious that somewhere there is going to be a
 for Developers. Top right corner, found it. 
 > I'd really like us to go back to prominent placement of 
 > categories like "problem", "get involved", "developer" - 
 > perhaps with big graphical buttons like Tim proposed in his V1.
 I hope to have given enough arguments sustaining why those big
 buttons are no better solution that good usage of the old good
 navigation elements in the header. Perhaps one problem here is that
 are assuming that the list of shortcuts will be boring and grey,
 unvisible. Well, making it prominent and visible is just a matter of
 playing with pixels keeping the same structure.
 Please approve the pencil mockup as a good default approach and
 graphic designers to play around it having in mind the list of
 users and use cases listed at
 http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org/proposal . Tim is
 by saying that at some point the real progress needs to happen on
top of
 PS1: max width vs flexible width - I have gone through this
 many times and I had enough of it. You can find good and bad
 implementations for both cases. One thing is truth: long horizontal
 lines are difficult to read. Many sites are 100% flexible in
 header/footer but have limited max width for the body text. Again,
 designers are used to deal with these issues.
 PS2: why the urge to avoid anything similar to the current homepage?
 There are many complaints about maemo.org but overall the homepage
 *structure* serves decently the purpose. We have heard many comments
 about better usage of the space, links that could be changed, less
 on pure development... These points have very little to do with the
 structure itself.
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[5] http://tim.samoff.com
[6] http://kc.samoff.com
[7] http://www.flickr.com/photos/timsamoff
[8] http://www.youtube.com/timsamoff

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