[maemo-community] Election process referendum

From: gary liquid liquid at gmail.com
Date: Wed Feb 4 01:53:37 EET 2009

for a long time I had no karma at all in this community.

Sure, visible participation is requested - but simply being a member is
There are many other routes outside the established channels to participate.

People pop up on different forums all the time "hi, long time member, first
time posting ....."

thats all :)

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Benson Mitchell
<benson.mitchell at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Sebastian 'CrashandDie' Lauwers <
> crashanddie at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't give a toss about my karma. I just remember that the last time
>> this was discussed, I was disqualified from voting. Yet, I was more using
>> this as an example. We could have quite a few members who are silently
>> listening, and analysing what is happening in the community, and who do not
>> feel the need to voice their opinions, who do not blog, who do not like HTTP
>> forums. People like that are being banned from voting, just because they
>> don't express their opinion publicly?
>> I don't recall any constitution requiring people to talk so that they
>> would be allowed to vote. It's not because one has the ability to talk that
>> they should be forced to.
> If, by constitution, you're referring to constitutions of state3, they have
> citizens, and generally give their citizens (subject to some criteria), the
> right to vote. There's two possible analogs here for the karma requirement:
> there's generally a time limit required for naturalization, and there's an
> age limit for voting. FWIW, I see the former as more analogous, but they are
> both limits a potential voter must have fulfilled.
> Unlike states, which control land and can consider those born in that land
> as citizens from birth, the maemo community can have no native citizenry;
> every one starts as an outsider, a foreigner, with relatively limited
> rights. The reason we don't allow anyone to vote is the same reason a state
> does not allow anyone to vote, and the reason we don't allow anyone with a
> maemo.org account to vote is the same reason states don't allow anyone in
> their territory to vote.
>>> I just don't understand the fuss you're making, Nokia said - when
>>> karma was first introduced - it'd be used as an indication for any
>>> future possible device programmes. Why is that OK, but using it as a
>>> benchmark to indicate someone's involvement in the community, to elect
>>> a council - to represent that community - is such a Bad Thing[TM]?
>>> Perhaps you can explain, rather than assert? Any power the council
>>> holds (and, despite a few assertions, we DO have some power[2]) will
>>> impact less on 99.9999% of the community than the chance of having
>>> shiny, new, cheap device.
>> I respect the council, please do not shift the focus of this conversation.
>> I do not undermine its knowledge or the members that compose it. I was
>> extremely proud and happy to hear the Maemo community was being given the
>> chance to have a council. Yet, there is a huge difference between utilising
>> an arbitrary number based on useless data gathered here and there to feed
>> egos, and empowering trolls with a vote, by removing that vote from others.
>> Yes, there, I said it. A troll has more chance of gathering karma than a
>> silent user.
> Fine, so we need to do something to stop the trolls. That doesn't mean that
> silent users (leeches? outsiders? trolls? We can't tell!) should be handed
> control, just because stopping them doesn't stop trolls.
>> One of the roles of the council is to give a voice to the community's
>>> cacophony, to make it easier to be heard by Nokia. If someone's not
>>> contributing to that cacophony, *why* should they get a vote in who
>>> filters, summarises and condenses it?
>> Because I choose to work the cacophony (btw, nice opinion of what you're
>> supposed to represent... Very.. Honorable, no, sorry that's not the right
>> word, very condescending) in different manners than by blogging,
>> incrementing my posts on itT, or yell about on this discussion list 24/7. I
>> talk with people, about their views, about their choices. I talk about how
>> they should brace themselves for the things that are to come, how to help
>> their project going forward. Because I care about other aspects of this
>> whole Maemo community which are most definitely not measurable by adding the
>> bits stored in a database.
> But how do you propose we distinguish between you and your ilk, who
> apparently make this valuable but completely unmeasurable contribution, and
> those who make no contribution at all? If it's really unmeasurable, we can't
> measure it, so we have to throw those people out, or include even
> deliberately disruptive users who make a new account with a clean email.
>> [1] http://maemo.org/profile/view/crashanddie/
>> Aye, and the only reason I have karma points is because I need to
>> sometimes come here and reach out so that some people don't hurt themselves
>> with their ignorance. Aye, I'm arrogant as well. At least I care to admit
>> it.
>> And even doing only that, you racked up almost double the current
> requirement for karma.  Since the world has no shortage of either ignorance
> or karma, I expect people like you will be quite able to keep enough karma
> in the future. So some people with even stealthier contributions might have
> to actually go work on their karma to build it up; that doesn't seem so
> horribly bad, and the alternative you present seems worse. (If you don't
> think the possibility of outsiders causing grief in a maemo.org election
> is realistic, you haven't been on teh intarwebs long enough. Some people
> will do anything for lulz, if you know what I mean.)
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