[maemo-community] VS: Re: Command line apps & Extras

From: Timo Pelkonen peltsip at gmail.com
Date: Thu Nov 26 17:16:03 EET 2009
----- Alkuperäinen viesti -----
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 12:15:18 +0000
> David Greaves <david at dgreaves.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2009-11-26 at 12:33 +0100, Jeremiah Foster wrote:
> > > On Nov 26, 2009, at 12:03, Roald de Vries wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 25, 2009, at 11:24 PM, Valerio Valerio wrote:
> > > > > Please share your opinion, we need to decide about this asap.
> > > >
> > > > Maemo's biggest competitive edge (compared to for example the
> > > > iPhone) is the freedom it offers to its users. From that point of
> > > > view the CLI apps should definitely be available.
> > >
> > > It's not that the CLI apps will be available - of course they will
> > > - it is user experience, or as the meme calls it: UX.
> > >
> > > From a user perspective, CLI tools break the UX. I say keep them
> > > only available through apt-get.
> >
> > And what would you use for an app 'browser'?
> >
> > In general I want to keep them away from 'end users' and keep them
> > trivially accessible by power users. I (almost) like HAM.
> "Power users" always can use the red pill mode in the application
> manager to install/browse CLI applications, upgrade libraries, and even
> get that feature called "reboot loop" ;-)
> I think that the red pill mode is really easy (and sufficient) for those
> power users, and without have to get root and go to the terminal to use
> apt-get.
> I think that there will be a new section in the application manager
> (user/hidden) that it just shows updates but it doesn't show anything
> in the install list. I'm not sure if it is the real function of this
> section, I have only seen the git changelog, and I haven't looked more
> in depth. Perhaps, it can be useful for the "update problem".
> In my opinion If we allow CLI applications in Extras, end-users will be
> dissappointed, they will install CLI applications with this reason:
> This application is called socat: so-cat (a cat!, surely it's like a
> tamagotchi!).
> End-users (and start-users too) generally don't read descriptions, they
> first shoot and then ask ;-)
> When they see that the application that they installed isn't
> anywhere in a graphical form, they will be dissappointed and will say
> "Maemo apps sucks", "Maemo is only for developers". Well, they won't if
> it happens only one time, but if it happens with let's say 10-15
> applications, they will do.
> I know that if we take this decision, it's going to be difficult for
> us. In the end, we are the kind of people using these CLI utilities, but
> what would happen if the end-users were the people deciding about this?
> Would they be happy to have "sqlite" between "recorder" and "theremin"
> in the all-list?
> Can we to do a survey to the normal people (not techies) around us? Just
> ask them: "What would you think if you install an application in your
> phone (ehh, mobile computer) and it doesn't appear anywhere?"
> Of course, in a better English than mine.
> If we want to help Maemo to go mainstream (whatever it means), we
> will must take difficult decisions with some old GNU/Linux traditions,
> and this is the first decision of this kind, surely we will see more.
> --
> Daniel Martin Yerga
> http://yerga.net

who will be the first to create poll to talk.maemo.org?

One possibility would be an "apt-get ui", an app that can be used for CLI software installation. There is (solvable) problems how to poll for updates etc....

But the poll to t.m.o. Is fairly quick to create and only problem is how to get only non-techies to reply.

But the minute CLIs can be found in extras straight, it is a huge step from user friendly to geek friendly imo. K.I.S.S. Is always a good rule of thumb to begin with as long as power users have their freedom to do what they want. 

Ossipena / Timo
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