[maemo-users] gpe contacts import

From: Jonathan Markevich jmarkevich+lists at gmail.com
Date: Thu Apr 24 21:10:27 EEST 2008
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Eero Tamminen <eero.tamminen at nokia.com>

> My comments were more about hobby Open Source projects in general.
> I think most of the maemo 3rd party applications are such.

Why should it be so different?  Isn't it nice to be a hobby developer and be
listed up there with the big boys?

> Who has 2 hours to waste on something as fun as bugzilla?  Even this email
>> exchange is way more rewarding.  I've put in a handful for certain
>> projects,
>> then watch them sit around doing nothing, only to get an email that says
>> "WONTFIX".  That's user hostile.
> Yes, I know that it can be frustrating (I've had my share of that too).
> But it's not user hostile, just pragmatic.  Developers are limited and

Yes it's hostile.  It's all caps, and tells the user they're an idiot all in
seven simple letters.  Granted it is very efficient of the developer's

That makes the triage for the user easy; 3) dump the program.
>>>>  Regardless of how important you may feel yourself :-), most Open Source
>> This is not about my own perceived importance, but the developer's.
>> Is he really more valuable than thousands or hundreds of users?
> It's not about developer importance, but what he has time to do.
> 1000*users surely can get more done than a single developer in
> regards to bug handling.

All a user is trying to do is keep the water out of the boat, not figure out
the oceanography that caused the rock to puncture it.

If the issue is not important enough to user so that he reports
> a bug, that gives a pretty clear message to the developer about
> the importance of the issue.

And chewing out at a user like that gives a pretty clear message of the
importance of the user(s).

Again, this is a very unprofessional way to develop.
> developers really aren't doing what they do to please you or get more
> Well, I was talking about hobby Open Source projects.

By professional I don't mean "making money" I mean respectful attitude.  As
if you expected to make money.

 And makes the platform unattractive to users and investors
>> (I also mean investors of mindshare and
>> time as well as money)
> Yes, distro/platform proving some easy way to provide error information
> to developers (without swamping them) would indeed be a good thing...
> (in addition to providing common bug tracking system so that users
> need to register there only once)

Bugzilla appears to be useful. Any bug tracking system is essential.  It's
just not a user tool, it's a developer tool.  It's complex and frightening,
and indeed, rather user hostile.

things *together*.  If you just want to profit from their work without
>>> contributing yourself in someway (even to some other project), well,
>>> they're not going to miss you.
>>>  Do you say the same thing to developers?  "If you don't want to respond
>> to
>> users' input, take a hike, we're not going to miss you".
> Sorry I lost you?

Respect goes two ways.  Blowing off users is a bad move.  Using the program
IS contributing to it.  It tends to create a network of users, spreading the
word is important and attracts potential developers.

The best experiences I've had with developers on maemo so far is on the ITT
>> forums.  It's simple to report, you can see results, and takes only
>> seconds.  One registration for many many applications, and it's something
>> you might want to do in the long run anyway.
> That sounds an excellent way for the users to organize&collect the
> information required for a good (reproducible) bug report.  It's
> then enough that one of them reports the bug.

No no, the developer can't be in an ivory tower.  If he uses a bug tracker
in the background or not, I don't need to know or care. The developer needs
to be *there*.  The forum posts are sometimes as good as fully fledged bug
reports.  They may still solicit bug submissions, but likely the user might
have already have done what he could.
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